The 2 Most Effective Ways That Veterans Can Market Themselves In The Civilian World | High Speed Low Drag Podcast Content

sniper

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Tom: Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the High Speed Low Drag podcast. I’m your host, Tom Morkes, alongside Antonio Centeno. How’s it going, Antonio?

Antonio: Tom, we are not alongside each other. Quit lying to the audience. We are on separate sides. Like I’m in Wisconsin and where are you at now? You’re just traveling now.

Tom: Yeah, I know. I’m in just east in Seattle. I’m in Renton right now.

Antonio: East of Seattle. I got to keep a beat on you because you’re like all over the place just moving around. You’re just out there.

Tom: I think I’ll be in Portland the next time we do this. So yeah.

Antonio: Just all over the place. Well, guys, if you haven’t heard we are just kicking butt over at High Speed Low Drag and our mastermind at High Speed Elite. We’ve already got a team of guys together who we’ve created this Elite mastermind, but here at High Speed Low Drag on the podcast we like to just create content which can be really relevant and today we’re going to be talking about shotguns and sniper rifles. Was that it or what was it?

Tom: That was definitely it. What do you want to be in business and life? Do you want to be a sniper or a shotgun? I think that’s how we started this conversation before we started recording and I like it. I like the angle on this.

Antonio: Yeah. And if you look at the picture of me over at High Speed Low Drag I think that’s one of the only pictures of me with a shotgun. I remember when we got issued those. We were on the boat to Iraq. The secret behind the photo if you go over and check out High Speed Low Drag about us is my roommate there on — we were on [0:02:21] [Indiscernible]. I don’t remember which boat it was.

We’re taking the slow boat over to Kuwait. This is in February of 2003. So we went over there right before obviously we went in with the 1st Marine regiment, but on the slow boat over my roommate he’s an ordinance officer. He basically was in charge of the armory as well. He brings in all these shotguns. He’s like, “Guys, look at what we just got.” And we’re just like, “Awesome,” passed around the shotguns.

Tom: Totally different, huh, that early in the war versus when I was there 2009, 2010. I feel like a lot of that kind of excitement. I was like, “Oh, we got a new piece of equipment.” It’s like, “Okay, now I have to learn how to use that. I have to put that into play. I have to like take inventory of it. No thanks.”

Antonio: So we’re going down a little tangent here gents, but I think — and ladies — but I think you’ll appreciate it because it’s yeah we did get some things. I mean shotguns make sense. It’s like, “Okay.” I mean this just makes sense. It looks intimidating. It’s great for clearing. Anyone that’s ever used a shotgun you don’t really have to aim the thing. You point it in the general direction and you won the sound inside. It’s just a fierce looking weapon and you don’t want to be on the other side of that barrel because it just sprays.

It’s just a pretty powerful weapon, but I know the one thing that we did kind of throw — we had this thing called the Blue Force Tracker and to some extent it provided some value, but man I mean it just — yeah, it was one of those things they’re loading us up with all these tech as we’re heading over and we’re just like we haven’t even trained with this and you’re trying to push it down our throats to use it so that you can then justify why the Department of Defense should spend this much more money on it.

Like I don’t know if I’m going to — we’re just going to use our radios, you know.

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Tom: Yup. Oh, yeah. We had like three or four of those tracking systems by ’09, ’10. I remember I had three individual unique tracking systems in my MRAPs when I was doing combo security. So yeah that brings a whole different tangent, but bringing it back to the shotgun and sniper question the cost of being and you kind of described it when you were talking about the benefit of shotgun is that it’s just point, shoot, sprays everywhere and it’ll get the job done.

But the sniper is a probably more effective weapon, is a more efficient weapon and it takes more skill, but again that’s the purpose of it. It’s more efficient. It’s more effective. So how does that relate to what we were talking about in terms of business and life?

Antonio: All I’ve got to say is one thing. Carlos Hathcock, White Feather, Marine Corps sniper, oh yeah. Just this I wanted to send some fear down the Army. But no, I mean yeah you’re exactly right. I mean today we’re going to be talking about marketing and in a sense being able to focus in and are you going to take the shotgun or the sniper approach.

Shotgun we talked about. Now, the sniper approach I know the sniper guys when I was with their battalion 1st Marines. They had these shirts, you know. It was why bother running. You’re just going to die tired. It’s like one shot one kill. It’s all about precision. It was like a science. It was beautiful. They understood the wind. It’s about being able to very carefully understand where the person’s going to be at what time, all the stuff that goes into it.

Yeah, with the shotgun I mean they’re handing those things out to an adjutant. I was an adjutant you know. Why am I playing with a shotgun? But the fact that you don’t need a whole lot of skill to be able to do it, you throw it out there. But you’re going to, you know, the range of a shotgun very limited. The effectiveness of the shotgun and especially in something armored very limited versus you know you get that with the whole 50 cal sniper rifle.

That thing is a — well, I was just reading about someone that just got — yeah, that’s one of the most effective weapons out there. So getting back to the marketing sniper versus shotgun we’re going to talk today about job hunting and starting your company and the benefits of each of these strategies for how do you want to go out there?

job huntDo you want to specifically target a job and put all in a sense put many of your eggs in one basket and go for that or is it something that you should be sending out 200 resumes and hoping that something sticks? The same with starting a company, is it something that you should go after a number of ideas, throw things out there and see what sticks in the market or should you go in and take a number of indicators, measure things and then invest a lot and go deep into area and specifically go after a target that you’ve zeroed in on?

So where do you want to start with? Where do you want to start?

Tom: You know, we’ll I’m excited the ladder there, but so I want to start with the first part actually. I want to talk about resumes and stuff like that because I think the question about business focus is actually kind of — I’ll be interested to see what your opinion is on that, but the first one I think the answer do you throw out, do you issue or do you send out like 100, 200 resumes blindly or do you focus in and you mentioned the word “precision” and with precision you target the people that you want to get hired by.

I mean I can see the value in both in terms of I think the shotgun approach is something that is easy to do and you can kind of do it with very little hassle in terms of like, oh, you could just take the same resume and send it out. But I just don’t see it being very effective, whereas —

Antonio: No, I completely agree. I think it’s become less and less effective. It used to be something that you could in a — and it depends on the market too. I mean if you have an advanced engineering degree and you have a very specialty type of job and workplace and you know that there’s more of a demand for you. Like let’s just say doctors as an example.

So if you, after you leave let’s say the Navy and you go, you finish up — you were maybe a corpsman. You go to medical school. You get all these stuff done. You may find and I actually have a guy that I’m speaking with in one of my business courses that he thinks — I mean doctors many of them just simply they get one interview and they take the job. They don’t even think about where they’re going. They’re just happy to have this job and they want something that pays well that pay off the student loans.

But for them it’s something that maybe a shotgun approach would actually work very well to throw out a number of resumes and because the market there’s a higher demand for you than there is in the sense of there’s not much coming. There is some competition, but honestly if you’ve got specializations and you throw it out there you may get ten offers and then from there you can zero in.

But for most of us that are not specialized like that it’s probably not going to be the best approach. What do you think?

Tom: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Off the top of head I completely agree. I think one of the things you could possibly do just because the nature of doing the shotgun approach should be basically mindless and if you want to in terms of like just doing a number’s game I guess throwing out there you never know. But I would say like don’t make that the only avenue that you go down.

CEOLike the idea of actually targeting a specific company that you’re specifically interested in and you go and you talk to some like there’s a person you’re targeting like in there. You want to go talk to him or her who’s like I don’t know the CEO or something like that. You really love this company. There’s a lot of research and background stuff you can do to kind of prep for that and there’s ways that you can kind of get inside and get around the traditional resume piece of things.

And despite — I guess I want to talk about this real quick. How would you target that? Because in my opinion I guess I would go about it in terms of like reaching out and connecting with them not outside of the official resume channels. Don’t just batch me in with everybody else.

Antonio: So I’ve got a personal story on this and I’ve also got a great example that’s not my personal story and I wish I would have thought of this, but this guy was a genius. So the one example I’m going to use is there was a marketing manager supposedly in the New York City, New Jersey area. He basically knew he wanted to work at one of these top marketing companies. So what he did is he targeted ten of the hiring managers at these companies and he basically whenever they would — people Google themselves all the time.

Now, he’s in online marketing. So he knew these guys are googling themselves. They got Google Alert. He set up — he paid Google Ad Words. He created ads with the people’s names, specific videos so that whenever they googled themselves his ad would pop up right there and it would say, “Hey, you know, I see you like to Google yourself. If you think that’s interesting wait until you get a load of what I’ve got to offer your company.”

He was so specific. He knew that only they would see it. And he could craft the message. So let’s say he spent an entire morning making all these videos crafting up these messages. He spent about five dollars on Google Ad Words I mean to pay for all of this because it’s not like a whole lot of people are looking for these particular people.

From that I think it led to from what I hear five phone calls, three interviews and two job offers with his dream companies.

Tom: Wow. It is awesome. I love that story.

Antonio: It is interesting. He got creative. He understood that he — now, that’s not going to work. If you’re looking to get into the let’s say the carpentry industry or you want to become a local carpenter I bet you know probably that industry they’re not googling themselves as much. But think about where are the hiring managers? Where are the top guys who are making the decisions? Where are they going? Where are they hanging out?

I mean if they’re at the VFW Hall, well, you need to be at the VFW Hall and get in front of them in a non — it’s like a — I’m just going to use a crude example. But whenever I would want to go meet girls and I was in Pensacola a single guy I didn’t go to the bars. You know what I did? I enrolled in the local college, University of West Florida. Is that it? I think it was. I don’t even remember.

I even pledged to a fraternity as an active duty marine and I don’t know you belong to a fraternity back at my undergrad, but I just did it for fun to meet people because that’s — if you want to meet women you go where they’re at. So I took a course on feminism actually. I was one of two guys in [0:12:51] [Indiscernible].

Tom: Wow. You weren’t kidding here. You’re all in.

Antonio: I’m not kidding. There were 33 women in that course and I was one of two guys. When I showed up in my uniform half the women hated me, half of them immediately loved me, but none of them did not know who I was. Okay, so that is my sniper example.

Tom: I love that. Real quick, I was just talking to a buddy of mine actually who’s in Fort Lewis. So I’m going to meet up with him later today for lunch, but he used to tell me a story about how he’s still in and he went I think civil affairs. And so he was selected to do Korean as a language, but he’s a Filipino.

So he was like, “I don’t really want to do Korean. I’d rather do –” what is it — Tagalog that they speak in the Philippines? So he sent — so the way he handled it it’s much tougher in the Army too so this is why this kind of surprises me, but he sent basically like a bottle of Jack Daniels and a box of cigars to each RC to like the person or the group that would be in charge of being able to switch his path and sure enough they did.

So he ended up getting it. So also not to discount the power of gift giving as well if you already — like that’s slightly different as not getting a job, but it also just goes to show that again if you target the person and people that or you’re very targeted about who you’re speaking to and what effects you want, you can kind of do these creative things and they can be very effective?

Antonio: Yeah. And you got to draw a line. I mean there is like some people may say, “Well, that’s kind of dirty. That’s not playing by the rules.” I think sometimes it’s about getting attention and also realizing that in a global economy there are what is — and it is like it’s a murky area because and my wife she created — I mean we would go places and yeah you were expecting if you want to get the best of something you are expected to give gifts.

And that’s just the way it goes, but I know we’re getting — so we’re talking about job hunting and we gave an example of the sniper approach. We gave benefits of the shotgun approach and possibly when to use it. I would say for most of us getting out it’s going to behoove us to use the sniper approach and to really work those personal relationships.

That’s one of the things we’ll be talking about. I mean I keep going back to High Speed Elite, but this is part of what we cover there is simply networking and getting to know people. I mean if you’re starting your company you can try to do it by yourself and you can just throw things out there and try to get — reaching out to people with co-leads or you can say, “You know what, I’m going to hire a business coach. I’m going to bring in a mentor that’s going to actually be able to make introductions and be able to get –”

All of a sudden it’s like you get to talk to people because of that introduction that was made. And yeah, maybe you paid 500 dollars an hour for a business coach, but if that coach brings you $10,000 in business in that first month that’s a pretty fair trade or that’s a great trade.

Tom: It’s a great trade. It’s a great return on investment right there and you could do that all long as long as it returns that way you know.

Antonio: So what do you think? Let’s talk about starting a company and going the sniper or shotgun approach.

Tom: Yeah. Well, I want to hear your opinion on this, Antonio. I think, yeah, I’m really fascinated what you have to say about this.

Antonio: So I do a little bit of the shotgun because I’m always throwing out and trying things. I find one of the easiest ways to start companies and how I can compare it to the shotgun approach is as I’m building professional relationships with people often times if I like somebody and I really think that we hit it off well and I want to continue the relationship I will do a couple of things.

handshakeI will either look to bring them into a mastermind and that’s a way of formalizing that business relationship and it’s kind of a little bit of a shotgun because it’s not that I’m setting up a one-on-one call or anything like that or continuously like accountability part anything like that. But I’m usually bringing them into a group of five maybe a little bit more and we’re staying in touch, but it’s kind of a loose relationship that could lead to which is then it could lead to then starting a company.

And so a lot of times I start a company, but then I kill it prematurely. So we’ve got something that we move with and then we kill it. And I think that’s kind of my shotgun approach to starting businesses, but I’m sorry yeah the shotgun approach.

Now, my sniper way to starting a business is where I know I’m passionate about something and I’ve got a competitive advantage and I also have some great people I brought in. And I would use High Speed Low Drag as an example where I’ve got the competitive advantage of I am a veteran. Just it’s very hard for anyone that would want to come into this sphere to be able to compete with me on that unless I’ve brought in some great partners both John and you, Tom.

And then we’ve got with — gosh, what was the other thing I was talking about? I mean I’m passionate about it. So it’s not like I’m going to give up on High Speed Low Drag no matter. I mean there was a time — I mean we started this company well over a year ago and it sat there for a long time. For months nothing really happening, but it’s one of those things I’m not going to stop being a veteran.

So what do you think?

Tom: Yeah. Well, I think interesting because I’m kind of curious about this because since I’ve gotten out obviously I went straight into — I didn’t really want in resume anywhere personally just because I thought in my head I was like, “Well, I don’t want to go work for one of these companies that these head hunting firms are trying to put me into.”

Just for me personally at the time I just I didn’t want to and they were all middle management positions. I was going to start out with like pretty like average salary.

Antonio: At a trucking company, right?

Tom: At a trucking company, yeah. And I was like, “Well, that doesn’t –” I’m not proud, trust me. I’ll get a job like if I must, but I was in a situation where I was like, “Well, I have the opportunity right now with savings plus I had investments.” So I had money rolling in plus I had already started some stuff online and kind of gotten some momentum going.

And I was like, “Well, I’m going to try this out and just try to go on my own at least for a little while, if it fails no big deal.” Well, a year later it’s actually it’s still growing and maybe I get to have to actually look at the numbers, but it seems to be growing almost exponentially now where I’m finally maybe hitting a tipping point soon like in these next couple of months.

antifragileSo it’s definitely a long time coming, a lot of hard work. But one of the techniques I used I guess I call it the barbell technique and it’s based off of Nassim Taleb’s Antifragile and it’s how he did options trading. So when he used to do options trading the barbell would be that you have puts and call options. And that basically it allows you to trade stock.

You have limited downside, but you have unlimited upside when you use it. And so I took that and I said to myself, “Well, how do I apply this to entrepreneurship?” So I said to myself, “Well, if I can make basic income with some factors here so I’m getting cash flow so I’m not just struggling for money.” So that would be my investments. Maybe I do like freelance writing or something like that or I have some consistent income coming in that allows me to just survive and then everything else I try so say, “Okay, what can I create that has unlimited upside.”

And then I want to put all my time and effort into these things equally. So I have five projects going on I want to put ten hours into each of these projects or maybe like two or three hours into each of these projects every day or something like that. And that’s just a random example. And then like you said so if I put all these the equivalent amount of time into multiple different projects then I have a greater spread, a possibilities of what’s going to stick and what’s not.

And so some things I had to scrap, but other things like in search and publishing and different books that I’ve worked on and these various different launches have been very successful in terms of they’ve kind of hit the maybe not the jackpot, but they were successful, whereas the other ones faded away. But I didn’t put that much time and effort into them. Does that make sense?

Antonio: It does. It does.

Tom: So that was my approach.

Antonio: Yeah, that’s a great approach and if anyone was listening to that they probably need to rewind and go listen to that again. That was a lot of data dump there. But I agree, Tom, that you can limit and you really prevent or you set the system up so that you’re not, you don’t have a time suck. You don’t have something that you’re putting tons of time and effort into and all of a sudden you realize years gone by and you haven’t really seen much return from it.

And books are a great way because you can set up a time especially Amazon books, the small pamphlets. They don’t have the biggest return, but what’s nice about it is you know we put out a book called Dress Like Man. It was my fourth book on Amazon and it’s nice. I mean I get a nice little sizable check every single month and that book just kind of churns and we kept our books very evergreen, very specialized and it helped me realize especially after the fourth book that I’m not really wanting to have — books just aren’t my deal.

But I like it because they took up a set about of time and they now just continue to deliver a nice return on investment. I think I invested with my writer, with all the research, everything that went into the book, maybe a little bit of my time probably 1,500 bucks into each book. But the return I mean I know on all of my books I have at least tripled the return in the last year on what I’ve made from those just selling on Amazon. And the cool part is they’re evergreen.

Tom: I love that. I’m going to have to pick your brain about that a little bit more and get into that. I like that because that’s kind of the niche publishing thing which is a totally different story. It’s obviously very specific, but I like that. I like what you do with that. That’s a great idea.

Antonio: But it’s a great way if you think about like a book is almost like a small little individual business because to me the true definition about business is something that’s able to generate money while you sleep. It’s a machine and it runs and it’s independent of you. It’s not you trading time for dollars. But getting back to the sniper and shotgun, with those books they were pretty much you know some of them were sniper books.

In fact, a sniper example of one of the books I put out is Dressing Sharp for the Large Man. Now, this is very specific. There wasn’t really anything out there and I knew it. I could smell it. I had people contact me all the time that, “Hey, I’m a large guy. I need to be able to dress better. Can you give me some advice?”

Now, I still I give away a lot of free advice, but instead of just pointing to the articles I now point them to an article which actually links over to my book. So they read this great article which is probably 2,000 words long. And if they still want more I then link them over to the book that they can simply purchase and own on Amazon.

You may wonder, “Well, why would anyone want to buy it when you give away some your best info right there?” There is a lot of people they simply want to own it for no other reason just to own the information. It’s a strange phenomenon, but it’s reason why we sometimes buy books and then we don’t read them. But we like the idea that the book sits on our bookshelf and we could pull it and read it any point.

Tom: Yeah. Well, I have a specific question for you, Antonio, because I’m really curious about this. So that’s an example, you know, I know that is kind of the sniper marketing, but more curious in terms of a broader or a bigger scope that’s like one specific product. But tell me about your company though. I feel like when we talk Real Men Real Style for example we talk John’s Entrepreneur on Fire. Like these are sniper approaches to marketing are they not?

You’re not just like doing every — like you’re not just throwing things out there. You guys are very focused on a specific —

Antonio: Well, initially they were shotgun because I’m creating content and I have to admit I wasn’t diving, I mean I wasn’t that sophisticated that I was diving into what people were searching for in Google. But it was something, it was a shotgun pointed in the right direction. I mean when you fire a shotgun you’re not just throwing on a blindfold and just swinging around and firing the thing.

You are pointing it in the general direction. So a lot of your things will hit, but they’re not going to have maybe much penetration because they weren’t — you did hit the target and you just were pointing in the general direction. You heard something. You saw a flash, a muzzle flash in that direction. So you turned around and you fire, you return fire in that direction.

real men real styleAnd that’s what I initially did with Real Men Real Style. Our first 50 to 100 pieces of content they were kind of all over the place. And here’s what’s interesting is I did some shotgun fires on YouTube because we did about when we started on YouTube we did 200 videos in 200 days. And interestingly enough certain videos popped up to the top that I didn’t expect and those videos were basically soft business skill videos where I talk about how to present in front of a group, speaking tips.

And so two out of my three top videos have nothing to do with clothing and if you look at my new website Real Men Real Style you’ll see that we actually have an entire section now on business skills. I did this because I paid attention to what the market was telling me it wanted and that’s the beauty of doing some of the shotgun firing in your business is that you start to find opportunities that maybe you couldn’t have perceived, but kind of reveal themselves whenever you fire in that direction.

Tom: Oh, yeah. I’m checking out Real Men Real Style right now. I like it.

Antonio: Oh, yeah. We got a sexy new website now. It’s mobile optimized, all that stuff.

Tom: Oh, yeah. It looks good. Well done. I like the choice of colors. But no, okay so I know we’re coming up to the close here, but I think this is an important question though for anybody who’s listening who’s like not at say your level for example or maybe just starting out. Okay, I see the benefits of the shotgun approach and I see the benefits of the sniper approach and maybe I see like the true benefits of sniper approach.

Like the sniper approach if you know what you’re doing just like you said like it takes skill. It takes understanding what the target is. It takes practice. So obviously that’s the way to go if you want the best results if you know what you’re going after. But how about for the person first starting out? What do you recommend for that person, maybe that veteran who’s just getting out of the Army or Marines or Navy or whatever?

Antonio: Well, let’s use the example of one of the gentleman in [0:26:44] [Indiscernible] I’ve spoken with. We’ll just call him Tim and we’ll say that he used to work at Amazon and we’re speaking with — you know I’m looking at what he’s doing and in a way he’s going to be starting his business. He’s firing kind of a shotgun, but he’s pointing at the general direction because he’s got an unfair advantage.

He’s a veteran. He’s worked at one of the top internet really retailer in my mind that’s out there just kicking butt. So if he develops a product which addresses what he has perceived as there’s this need and this pain in the market place. Now, the first time he puts out that product he’s probably not going to name it exactly right.

There’s going to be — he could have probably gotten more specific, but he at least fired in the right direction and then his second, third, fourth product that he optimized based off of what people are paying for and when speaking with his customers of what they want that’s where he’s going to be able to then put down the shotgun, bring up the sniper, the 50 cal and really put some hurt down range.

Tom: Okay. So it sounds to me like then the end stay here is would you say that it’s start with the shotgun approach and to test and then move over to like the precision marketing —

Antonio: It depends I think on a lot of your resources I mean because not everyone is going to be able to — some people can come in. I mean there’s the chance that if you’re using the sniper rifle initially I think you can definitely get deeper penetration. You can hit harder. For some companies that’s just the way. Like if you’re doing a medical device company which whenever I go down to the University of Texas and I judge on the Venture Lab investment competition we see all these medical devices coming and these guys need investment.

So for them the sniper approach like you don’t start with a shotgun there, but you do have to use somebody else’s money. So that’s a different type of you know if you’re going to go down the sniper you need to be prepared that you may like totally miss the target. But on the other hand if you’ve got a little bit of venture capital behind you or angel investor you can take that calculated bet and it’s nice when it’s not necessarily your fortune that you’re putting in the line.

But if it’s your fortune I would recommend starting off a little bit more of the shotgun and then bring in the sniper rifle.

Tom: Yeah. For starting your own business it sounds like that’s the way to go and then it sounds like though for going the corporate route, for getting a job route you kind of it would actually behoove you at least to be more efficient, to be more effective is to start with the sniper approach which would probably take clarity on your end of what job you want and where you want to work and stuff like that.

But if you can target the business that you want to work with or at least the industry you can get very specific about how you approach them and how you essentially apply for that job unconventionally.

Antonio: Cool. Great summary, Tom, and on that we are going to be ending this episode of High Speed Low Drag. Guys, if you want more please go over to High Speed Low Drag and grab our e-book. Well, it’s a checklist e-book. It’s always getting better, but 101 Steps To Transition Success and I bet there are certain things on there that even if you’re ten years out of service that you have not done or haven’t thought about.

One example would be, you know, have you — especially if you’re using the VA you have a VA medical card because think about this. This VA medical card is proof that you are a veteran and you can use that to get discounts. I just saved like 240 bucks at a hotel the other day simply by saying, “Hey, do you have a government rate for veterans?” And they gave it to me. It was like literally almost half price. So yeah.

Tom: That’s good. I know what we’re going to have to a training module on now. It’s how to get that VA card because I’m sure there are ton of people out there who didn’t know that existed.

Antonio: Well, here’s the thing. I don’t even have that card yet. I’m in and out to get it, but it’s like they simply gave me the discount. I didn’t even have to show it. You simply ask which that’s another class on negotiations and just willing to ask. Worst case they say no. It’s like a muscle. You build up that habit, but man we ca go down this.

But again stick with us, subscribe here to High Speed Low Drag. Please leave us a review preferably five stars, but we understand if for some reason you are just disappointed and you got leave something else. But we love to hear from you guys, really appreciate you passing us on to your friends especially veterans or those who are active duty and could use the advice we’re dishing out.

Tom: It sounds great. See you guys next episode.

Antonio: Take care. Bye-bye.

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